Tuesday, 6 September 2011

The next steps.


Recently a number of people have asked where (and when) I plan to go from my Vengeance hull. I've been a little reticent with my answers, simply because I recognize that my views might change. For what it's worth, though, here is the current plan:

Vengeance > Purifier > Sacrilege > HAM Legion/Damnation

Yes, there is a method to my madness.


I'm committed to getting every relevant skill to level V. This is something I want to do with every ship on the above list, but I sometimes get the impression that people don't really believe me. They ask me when I'm moving on, or when I'm going to train battle cruisers.

The answer is, I'm not. This is a process that will take months. With complete focus, I'll probably be finished some time after Christmas. Maxing out your first ship takes a long, long time.

When I get closer to my goal, I'm going to invest in T2 rigs and a faction repair system (I'm trying to build up a cheap stockpile in the meantime - if anyone has a source for reasonably priced small coreli c-type armor repair systems, hook a pirate up!). That won't happen until my missile and tanking skills are maxed out, though, which will be some time in October.


Now, after coming across as all hard core and super focused, I'll relent a little. Just like every other player, I want my new shiny toys, so I'll be interspersing some skills for the Purifier with my Vengeance skills. Because of my past focus, I still won't be able to sit in a Purifier until October, as I have a number of prerequisites to cover, but it does mean that I'll be test-flying the ship before the Vengeance is finished - and that it will take me longer than planned to max out my Vengeance (although most of those skills will also benefit the Purifier).

There are a number of reasons that I've chosen the Purifier as my next ship. Some of these are obvious: it's cheap (compared to the alternatives), it builds on my soon-to-be-perfect missile skills, and it's perfect for my favourite thing in Eve - soloing above class ships.

However, there are some other important considerations. First, I need to be able to make a lot more money if I want to be able to fly T2/T3 cruisers one day. While I am winning progressively more and more of my fights as my Vengeance skills creep towards maximum, there is an upper limit on the profit a Vengeance can make; it just can't take on the "prize ships" without the help of a gang.

Enter the Purifier. With the ability to hunt down and kill battle cruisers and battleships, a well flown Purifier can potentially make much more money, laying the financial groundwork for later ships.

Equally, I would finally be able to contribute some meaningful dps to Tusker gangs, which is an area where I feel I have been letting the team down.


The Vengeance's big brother, it builds on all the skills I should already have maxed out: missiles, resistance tanking, and cap management. It should not actually take me too long to max this ship out, because the majority of the relevant skills should already be at V.

Not just able to contribute to a gang, but be part of the gang, up to and including fighting on gates and stations, the Sacrilege will round out the ships I can bring to the team. Although not a shield tanked BC, I hope that a resistance tanked Sacrilege will be able to keep up with the Harbingers/Hurricanes, as well as contribute similar dps. I really look forward to flying this ship.

HAM Legion/Damnation

A long, long way off, but probably the "best" ships I'll ever be tempted to fly. Again, they build on my core skills, making my training very efficient in the long run. I'm not sure where or how I would fly these; they are simply too far beyond my experience. Currently more of a theoretical goal than something I am devoted to acheiving, I don't see myself sitting in either of these ships for at least a year.


  1. As for a ultimate goal, have you considered a Torp armor tanking Typhoon? You will need good drone skills as well to get the most out of it.

  2. I just recently bought a HAM legion, and while I dont have the iskys to fit it as pimp as the most popular solo fit demands, i am still quite happy with its stats.

    As for the Sacralidge, im guessing you will be active tanking it, so as long as it dosent have a plate on it, it shouldnt lose much of its agility and be able to keep up with BCs

    Finaly while it would be interesting to hear about you fighting in other ships, i salute your dedication to maxing out ships before moving on, i think allot more people should try it. I always tell people im teaching to pvp to try and get as good as you can with frigs and cruisers before moving up to BC/BSs, will save you losses while experimenting and if you can kick ass with a cruiser, a BC you will be 2x and dangerous

  3. The Sacrilege is a nasty nasty boat. You won't find a Vagabond or Cynabal willing to engage it at close range unless the pilot hasn't got a clue.

    An interesting thing I noticed is that if you plate a ship and then nano it, you lose next to nothing in speed/agility, and since nano changes hull HP, you don't lose armor. Something to consider.

    I had asked what you were thinking of next because it felt like you were winning the majority of your fights in the Vengeance. A great quality to be sure, but the limits a frigate imposes can be a tad frustrating (gate guns, station guns).

    I think the Purifier is going to be your mega-money maker. If you've never read "Confessions of a Stealth Bomber Killer", you should give it a browse. Basically he's a pirate, just in w-space, and with the stuff he kills (Noctis's with all the loot and salvage >_< ) He's looking at a huge income for one bomb and some torps. Here's his blog: http://evestealthbomber.blogspot.com/

    Great job staying in the black, keep it up!

  4. The faction c-type small repairers are not the same stat wise - the Centii I believe is better than the Coreli, possibly also the Corpii.

    Also, the range of HAMs on a Sacrilege (<18.1 in EFT) is simply too low for our standard shield BC gangs without using Javelins, which actually slow you down therefore making them unsuitable for kiting.

    Saying that, if you are aiming for a HAM Sacrilege, the HML Drake is not that long a train (a month or so I believe at most) and works like a treat in such gangs.

  5. I tried soloing in a purifier - I managed to catch a ratting tengu, and due to his speed and sig radius I was completely unable to break his tank and eventually had to let him go (I had no backup within ~30 systems). Against BCs and BS (especially if they have a MWD, as opposed to this AB-fit tengu) I think it probably would have worked a lot better!

  6. You are absolutely right about the different repair systems, Suleiman. The Centi and Corpi reppers are "better", but they also have an activation cost of 45GJ as compared to the Coreli 40GJ.

    This means that the slightly weaker Coreli repper can be run cap stable without any cap rigs, allowing me to squeeze out a little more dps. Going from memory, I get about another 14Hps out of the Centi repper, and another 14Dps from the Coreli (or rather, the rigs I can fit instead of the CCC).

    After a great deal of back and forth, I've taken the view that the extra dps is going to be more useful, on average, than the added rep power as I am already able to tank many frigates and cruisers with just a T2 rep.

  7. I think your best bet to acquiring the Coreli Reppers is to set up "Want to Buy" contracts in Dodixie for about 3-5m isk each (with an alt of course). I got a few for as little as 2m isk once, but that isn't constant. I don't know how much you're willing to spend on them, but I used to sell them for 10-12m at one point. So they're not always cheap. If you set up the contracts now, you'll build up a nice stockpile of 5-10 by the time you're ready to use them. (Assuming 3-5m is a reasonable price for you.)

  8. To echo what Sulei said, taking a month to train for a HML Drake would be an excellent idea since all your missile support skills will carry over nicely, it fits in perfectly with the very common shield BC gangs, and won't break the bank like a Sacrilege when it pops.

    The Sac is a nice ship in its own right, and I'm looking forward to flying one soon-ish, but it's very much a close range brawler and doesn't really lend itself to the kiting style of mid-range shield BCs, especially since it can't apply damage at ranges beyond 20 km without loading javelins and giving up its speed.

    Cross-training Caldari would also let you try the Hookbill and Hawk, both of which might make a nice change from the Vengeance.

  9. After some thinking about a rocket based Amarr ship you could possibly squeeze into your plan. I came up with this: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Heretic

    It's relatively cheap for a T2 ship as well.

  10. A couple of people have evemailed me regarding the Heretic, which is a very interesting ship that I had not considered.

    My first stop was Azual's know your ships guide (<3), and it seems like a solid ship. However, I'm not sure it does anything "new".

    I mean, it should destroy frigates pretty handily, but it's tank to high signature probably means it suffers against anything larger, meaning my assault frigate has an edge in solo roaming.

    I'm very interested, and it would be a relatively easy tangent to train, but what would I actually do with it, either solo or in a gang?

  11. Heretic would be good solo VS frigs and badly fit cruisers. But for a gang it would not be so good as it would be instant primary. I'm guessing its use would be limited in lowsec gangs.
    But, as it is a very rare sight it should be easy to find fights. Off the top of my head I've only ever seen 2 Heretics in my whole Eve career.