Thursday, 8 September 2011

Fitting a Vengeance: Refining my Fit

As I get closer to maxing out my Vengeance skills, I'm looking more and more at flying a maxed out Vengeance. Alright, perhaps not "maxed out" - I'm still scratching a living off of my piracy - but certainly an upgraded fit.

The fits are all quite similar, so I'll cover the obvious stuff first:

Highs: 4 Rocket Launcher II
Mids: Full Tackle
Lows: Damage Control II, Adaptive Nano Plating II

This leaves me with two "open" low slots, and two rigs.

Standard Vengeance

This is my current fit, and I include it as a baseline. It puts an EANMII and a Small Armor Repairer II in the lows, an a Small Anti-thermic Pump and Small Warehead Calefaction Catylist in the rig slots. Like all my fits, it's cap stable. All DPS figures calculated with Rage rockets.

DPS: 116 (136 overheated)
HPS: 113 (146 overheated  - although not cap stable)
EHP: 9937
Speed: 818 m/s (1064 m/s overheated)

Tank Fit

This fit puts an EANMII and a Centii C-type Small Armor Repairer in the lows, and a Small Anti-thermic Pump and a Small Capacitor Control Circuit II in the rig slots.

DPS: 105 (124 overheated)
HPS: 140 (181 overheated!)
EHP: 9937
Speed: 818 m/s (1064 m/s overheated)

A significant damage reduction in exchange for massive active tank and tremendous capacitor regeneration; having flown with the T1 CCC, I know that it is very difficult to neut me out with a single neut. Moving to a T2 CCC, the it would take two neuts to shut down my armor repairer, and everything else continues to function just fine.

Balanced Fit

This fit copies the Standard Fit, but upgrades the repairer to a Coreli C-type and the Calefaction Catylist to T2. No other changes.

DPS: 121 (143 overheated)
HPS: 124 (161 overheated - not cap stable)
EHP: 9937
Speed: 818 m/s (1064 m/s overheated)

Effectively, a modest dps and hps boost over what I am currently flying.


A Balistic Control System II and a Coreli C-type Armor Repairer in the Lows, along with a Small Anti-thermic Pump and Small Warhead Calefaction Catylist II in the rig slots.

DPS: 147 (173 overheated!)
HPS: 98 (127 overheated - not cap stable)
EHP: 8594
Speed: 818 m/s (1064 m/s overheated)

This fit trades over 1k EHP and a significant chunk of it's active tank to achieve a level of dps you don't usually find on a Vengeance.

My thoughts

Right now, I'm leaning towards the "Balanced Fit". That's not terribly surprising, because it's very similar to what I'm flying now; it's in my comfort zone.

However, the other two fits have obvious advantages. The Tank Fit wins wherever your own dps is irrelevant, such as when you are burning back to a gate after jumping into an instant-lock camp. It is also excellent for wearing down buffer fit ships, and most T1 and T2 frigates cannot break it's tank.

On the other hand, the Tank Fit invests a great deal in it's tank, and does not hold up as well in situations where the tank is not relevant, such as where multiple neuts are being applied, or you are trying to burn down the enemy before their backup arrives. Here, of course, the DPS Fit shines. It's also the only fit that can reliably break a Drake's passive tank solo - Azual puts the typical Drake's peak recharge at around 150HPS.

Given two extremes, I tend to gravitate towards a middle ground, and so it is with fits. Still, I throw the floor open for comments, as there are almost certainly factors I have not considered.


  1. Why not upgrading the Adaptive Nano Plating II to a C-Type? You get them for something around 10-15m.
    And I dont know why, but my EFT shows me 100 DPS at all lvl 5 with the Balanced Fit (using CN Gremlin).

    Thy Kairona

  2. DPS has been calculated with Rage, which is pretty much the standard ammunition against most targets (assuming you have them webbed and scrammed). Faction rockets are used only against drones and ships moving faster than 600m/s after scram and web (ie, ships moving faster than 1500m/s on AB; probably Drams and AB fit Interceptors).

    I'll add that to the post, though, as it's a fair comment.

    The faction ANP is an interesting suggestion. It adds about 326 EHP and 5 HPS to the standard fit (and even more HPS to the other fits). Is that worth 10 million ISK? I don't know, but it's certainly worth considering.

  3. Don't forget the Drake has a peak recharge of ~150 but it is also running resists of ~60%-80% so your ~150 DPS will drop to ~75 DPS.


  4. Also dont forget a C-type afterburner, i know its not exactly part of the tank but like the ANP its rather cheep and might give you a useful boost in speed (considering this is suposed to be a more leet maxed out fit)

  5. I have to agree with the others, Coreli C-Types are really great for their cost. Also, their low cap usage is great (ABs atleast, the reppers use the same amount of cap but rep more). Also, there's a lowsec Serp 1/10 site not far from Hevrice, so you might be able to farm some modules there (and possibly get some kills off others trying to do the same, lol).


  6. You should look at this one, its a good balanced fit and the c-type stuff all adds up to around 20 to 30 mil and adds alot of awesome ness to it.

    To get some free stuff go to Estaunitte there is a 1/10 serp plex there, you have to go through 2 high-secs but its is isolated and rearly is being done.

    [Vengeance, Pew]
    Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer
    Coreli C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
    Ballistic Control System II
    Damage Control II

    Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
    X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
    Coreli C-Type 1MN Afterburner

    Rocket Launcher II, Gremlin Rage Rocket
    Rocket Launcher II, Gremlin Rage Rocket
    Rocket Launcher II, Gremlin Rage Rocket
    Rocket Launcher II, Gremlin Rage Rocket

    Small Anti-Thermic Pump I
    Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I

  7. @ -MG: The resists are already calculated into the Draeks recharge in EFT.

    The actual base average recharge of a draek is ~25hp/s

  8. I would go with the DPS fit myself. Increasingly, I feel that the most important attribute of any solo ship (especially one that fights in scram range and has to commit to its fights) is the ability to kill targets *quickly*, before their friends can respond. If you can reliably do that, two things happen: first, it becomes practical to engage much larger gangs in the hope of splitting them or ganking one or two before the rest can respond. This obviously increases the number of potential targets you have. Second, it allows you a bit of 'shock and awe' - most people take a few seconds to get up to fighting speed and start responding to what you're doing. In a low-DPS fit, that means that by the time they're fighting back as best they can, you've put a few chips in their tank. In a very high DPS setup, you'll have taken large chunks out of their primary buffer...

  9. @ -foksieloy

    With my fit and skill in a drake that is NOT setup for max tank I am pushing ~100 HP/sec peak base. Then with my resists an EFT modified rating of 362.

    Average base is ~40 but shield recharge operates on a bell curve. Peak formula is (shield / shield recharge) * 2.5 = peak. So with my balanced Drake I am looking at:
    (16,179/397.2)*2.5 = 101.83 peak recharge. That is not including my resists of 61/69/77/81.
    This is on a setup that includes 452 DPS with 2661 volleys.

  10. @ -MG: Well, you then have a fleet/bait draek. :)

    I myself prefer a nano or poodla draek. :>

  11. A standard tank/gank HML drake (web/point) peaks around 140dps tank with resists included. You can break a standard pvp drakes tank in most t2 frigates the main problem is most people you find solo in a drake will either be in a. The Nano/Podla Drake in which case it will be a close call whether you will survive long enough to kill him or b. A ratting drake where their tank will be too strong for your dps.

    Rarely will you find a fleet drake on its own.